George speaks with Billy the Greek and Tom Fote, the Godfather of recreational fishing rights.

spk_0:   0:00
Theo This'll is the New York England fishing podcast Brought to you by n y angler dot com Your secret spot online hosted by the man who introduced New Yorkers to the world of online fishing. Mr. George Scott.

spk_1:   0:19
Hello, everyone. My name is George Scott aka and you're listening to the New York Fishing podcast Brought to you by your friends at New York angler dot com All New York fishing all the time. It is your secret about online in this new episode of New York fishing podcast. I will be speaking once again with Billy degree. Those of you that know Billy he's kind of a legend striped bass fisherman. I also speak with Tom Foti of New Jersey as he gives us a preview of what New Jersey may ask for regarding their conservation equivalent sees. So I'm going to go straight into my open, which I do on each and every episode. And I just like to talk just a few minutes about conservation organization and what I feel we need in order to stay united as anglers and have a voice in fisheries management. So today, with the advent of social media, you twitter you've got New York, angler, you've got all these platforms where we can unite anglers. Yet what I see is many anglers that are engaged in are informed, and I do care about our fishery. Everyone's kind of going their own. Which way, and what's happening is we do not have a unified voice right now. When I look at the organization's, I'll views Montag serve casters, for example. So these guys were out there. They're working hard all the time to go to meetings. They write letters, they clean up beaches, they do all kinds of stuff. And when I look at their board and a look at the makeup of that group, it kind of frightens me a little bit because it's like the same people. And I was off the scene for almost five years, dealing with my issues and ah, health issues. That is, and you know, I come back only to find that it's old, the same people. So we need to get this younger group and there are a lot of amount. The efficient there, you know, a lot of be here a lot. All of their home, they're playing their games, they're playing on their phones. That's not true when it comes sufficient with our anglers. There are plenty of young anglers out there, Fisher. They use social media as part of it and really, you know, when you think about it, don't you wish? Well, me, I'm 64 but yeah, I wish when I was growing up, I had pictures I could send to my friends and show him what I was catching the day before, you know? So there's this huge advantage that anglers have right now to unite and send a clear message when the message needs to be said So, for example, you're going through a restructuring of striped bass management. You're not really being that heard. I mean, I'm not gonna say you you're not being that hurt. We don't have that many people talking. We don't. Our organizations don't have enough people involved with them. They don't know what you want. They know what they want and what they think is good, but they can't continue to do it. So I'm gonna urge all of the young listeners, and my vast majority of my audience is in that demographic of 25 to 50. So I'm gonna ask the younger guys and girls to please. Look, you probably have a local fishing club. Maybe you want to join the New York Sportfishing Federation or the fishing Alliance? Sir, there's all kinds of different groups out there. I would urge you to please get involved. So what of fishing is not like golf for freshwater fishing. You know, you always know there's going to be a green there, and you always know there's gonna be large mountain lake, Uh, when the When the Lakers will take anyway. But you don't always know that you're gonna have access to saltwater fish, and it could happen. It's happened before it could happen again. So please do what you can at the same time always preach conservation. We should always think about it. Resource. First and again, I urge all of all younger angles to please get involved, get involved with an organization to help further our cause and make sure that there are fish years. Theo Asai, sit here with my lovely wife Barbara. I'm looking out the window and it is snowing out perfect setting for our holiday special on, and we're gonna talk present. So, Barb, what did you have in mind to get me this year?

spk_0:   5:25
Well, George, I'm going through your Woz, and I could see that you could really use some some clothes to shell like the pants and hurts. And I was gonna tell the family because they always ask me Well, what can I get you? A wise And I was like, Wow, this year he could use some some new clothes. Okay, so let's stop it right there. Uh, so

spk_1:   5:47
I believe I have plenty close of a dozen played shirts. I have a habit. Doesn't pay. Well, not even three pair of jeans. Unlike you, that has literally folks, no exaggeration. Just over 40 pair accounted one day. But there's another closet that I know she has Maurin. So Yeah, but I'm not I'm not into that. Um, I was thinking something like simple something that, you know. I mean, I know exactly what I want, and you could, like, tell everybody. Look, this is what we're going to get him. And it's just a little thing that pulled a spot

spk_0:   6:26
lock. I know what a lot

spk_1:   6:30
of it's very small item, and at the 10% rule, it will be somewhere around $1000. All set up with fine there.

spk_0:   6:41
Is that it?

spk_1:   6:42
Yeah. And then for you, I was thinking,

spk_0:   6:45
Well, what I need to me. I should ask them to get me this for Christmas.

spk_1:   6:50
Well, no, I was thinking about what? To get you. Like what I want. Well, no. What you need

spk_0:   6:58
what I need. I forgot what I need.

spk_1:   7:00
You need your own Fluting said It's just what I always wanted. We'll have a good friend, Rod, Wind, er or Captain Eo make you a nice rod can be paying. Well, I'm so glad you said that, because if I would have said that it would have been sexist. God said, Hey, is a terrible person banned the show? OK, eso pink? Yes. And as a matter of fact, I could show you a custom riel that was made by the LEP

spk_0:   7:34
that I always wanted.

spk_1:   7:36
Well, it's kind of a pinkish color. It would go nice, but I'm not sure that he make it for you. It's like a custom thing. That so if he's making it for anyone, it's for May. So so, besides that I was gonna get you a nice set up and, I don't know, maybe your own pliers.

spk_0:   7:57
Yeah. You know, I see I had my eye on this flyer I always wanted. Yeah, just

spk_1:   8:06
let me know

spk_0:   8:07
which one I really wanted. That $1,000,000 law that I saw you years.

spk_1:   8:12
Yeah, way. So we were at the eye care show, and they had a lord made at a diamond. Well, I just that was worth over a $1,000,000. So she wants that lord.

spk_0:   8:22
But I'll take that.

spk_1:   8:23
We could never afford it. And with all Look, we put the thing on a bluefish would buy. Okay? All right. So pretty much We're in agreement then that you're getting me fishing stuff, and I'm getting your fishing stuff because you want that.

spk_0:   8:44
I definitely want that flier. Yeah, yeah.

spk_1:   8:47
I could get to a Gold flyer. Both sides want gold

spk_0:   8:51
out like it's really go. Well, forget it.

spk_1:   8:54
Okay. Well, huh? Merry Christmas. Happy

spk_0:   8:59
days to everyone. I hope everybody has a happy and healthy holiday

spk_1:   9:04
and saying here and thank you all for listening. And thank you, my love you

spk_0:   9:10
so much. Right back at you.

spk_1:   9:19
Next up, everyone is my to port. Siri's sitting down with the legend, building the green, sitting here with Billy, the Greek feigned legend and author of a bestselling book about striped bass. And he's gonna here today. He's here today to give us a little background on his history. What got him into fishing? What types of fishing he enjoys most. I got a lot of questions, and I have a feeling this is gonna be a very long interview, and I'm gonna open up with one question. And that would be really what is the one thing that you can think of that got you into striped bass fishing and made you the fanatic that you are today?

spk_0:   10:13
Well, thanks, George. Uh, yeah, let's get it to this cause women. When I was a little kid, I fished as far back as I remember, we lived in Florida. I was like, what, Five years old and we lived on a little lake and we fished a large mouth bass. And that's what actually started me in the world of fishing with my father. But to get in how I started striped bass fishing one year when I was about probably nine or and I was at the beach and had to be September. I didn't know it at the time, but it was about it was probably in the middle of late September and I was with my two friends and their mother, and we're walking down the beach in Long Beach. And there was a guy on a jetty and he was fishing and he called it. I saw the rod. Benny caught a fish and I love the fish. I kind of walked out on the rock behind them. I didn't make any noise, and I just watched him for a minute. And I noticed in the water, though the ocean was alive with fishing bait and I had no idea because I had never really fished the ocean before. I had always fished the bay and the lakes and Greeks and stuff like that. So, uh, he had a little fishing, riding a little blue Lewis swimming lure on. I watched him that and he caught a striped bass. It was about, I'm gonna say, maybe £45 of many got it in. And that was the first striped bass I had ever seen live. I was like, Oh, my God, is Actually, Fisher and I lived close by, so I was very excited, but I didn't say a word. I stood right behind him on the rocks about it was about 50 feet back and watched him in the hole. Water? There was big swirls and little fish flying out of water. I know not a mullet. There was a mullet run, but I didn't know that at the time. So he caught another one. And then there was a splash, and he cast right with wasn't whatever it was eight his little plug and emptied the line and broke. It is tempting, the whole real. That was the most impressive thing I had ever seen at that time in fishing. And he turned to me and he realized I was watching and he could say, kid, because I was a real big fish. I'm gonna go home and get my bigger rod. Well, I was gonna do the same thing. I didn't have a bigger ride yet, but I was like, Oh, my God. This So I went to the local tackle shop and I was guy what I saw because Oh, yeah, that that striped bass in a little plug I saw right on the wall. It was a little creek Chub swimmer about three inches long. Little blue swimmer. So I bought one of them in the very first day I ever won Striped bass fishing in my life. I caught three little bass up the Betsy and I was excited. And most Yeah, that was a very first day of one bass fishing. Then I started fish Long Beach a little bit. I had a I had saved up enough money. I bought us a pen 700. And then those days, that was a predecessor, I think seven or four. But I fish that I had a little cheap higher on H I. Little diamond on the rod said hi. It was a little two piece nine footer. And I met these two guys that a guy named, uh, Lee and Steve Lee was probably about 40 Steve, probably mid twenties. And he talked me out of knights and do this and he fished with job. Pop is in those days, right? Very yeah. In a very short time, I got good at this. I started catch fish, let consistently, and I would every every day when the bastard heir before school I would ride my bicycle over. I lived in Island Park. I would write it over the bridge, the long beach go fishing, come back at seven. In the morning to go to school, stop off with caramel or fishing station was at the base of the bridge and get something to drink. And the owner there says to me, one day goes, Kid, he goes, Do you go to school? Course I go to school because you get up in the dark, go fishing, and then come back and go to school. Yeah. You want a job? I had never had a job before. Yeah, so I said, Well, what I gotta do. So he was like, Yeah, you help with the party boats And he had had a lot of skits, maybe 60 robot rentals there. And you put motors on the boats and on the weekends, You know, it sounded pretty cool. The May. I was like, Sure I'll do that. You know, I think I got paid like, five bucks a day is something that you know. So I did that for a little while. Then older guys there, they like me, so they would take me fishing, you know? Right? And I started the fish with them, and I became, you know, we can't strength, but everything but their future striped bass fishing you got to know. And at the time, there was a guy named Frank Dominic. And in my book, I write about Frank cause Frank's the guy who really showed me how to strike a fish. So anyway, thanks. But, um, Frank used to be a wholesale beach place. He was I had a fishing station on the water in Harbor, Ill. And, yes, rental rowboats. And he used to make grind. He drowned all the bunker on Long Island, and they would ship it all around to the party boats and tackle shops. He was solely responsible for bringing clam chump the Long Island. He was here from, like, 1938 you know, said he really But he was a premier best fisherman. He was a legend. Everybody, Newell. And one day, when he's delivering bait that a Commodore he says to me, gives a is Hey, you want to come to work for me? I feel like and I was like, and that was like that was like the ticket to heaven to May. I was like, I'm gonna work for Frank Dominic, Bass fisherman, that everybody knew that. And I went and I went to work for him on I actually asked John, the guy on the Commodore. I told him I was like, You know, I want to go to work for his, like a head. I went to work for Frank, and I started fishing with him. What right front we usedto for for a job is I got a little older. I started get into my teens, and Frank was He caught his own bait. All of it, like please. He caught bunker. He could crabs. He could everything spearing. So he started to learn. He knew when the bait is where it was, what time a year it was supposed to be there. And of all the things I learned in bass fishing, I think that was one of more important things. I learned every single bait that was in the bay. What time of year was in the bag when it moved out of the bay? In the world, The fishing the most important. You know, where debate is you know what a Fisher and it was Bates that I had never seen. Like lizard fish on the bottom. You had Lafayette's at this time of year yet Bay anchovies. There was a 1,000,000 little species, sometimes a little baby blow, baby flounder. So there was a 1,000,000 little species that you had a learn where they were, and we know where there are more. You really put on Then, Frank, I started the fissure him as as we got as I got older. And then he was like, he was like a premium fisherman. And we really It was really an interesting is very different because we had not only the garden catch bait every day, but we went fishing all the time and or shop. Yeah, Okay. Where with everybody who pin often. Pinegar is Ah, a fisherman who catches this fish on rod and reel instead of nets. In those days, it was very legal. So all the best that they could be used to bring in get him up and ship them to the market and the guys would bring him in, Say they had £200 of best. I would write up a ticket ticket for £200 of best. And then when Frank sold him, he would give them their money and take his. Took a small cut out of it, you know? So we had a pretty big contingency. A fisherman company, A

spk_1:   17:15
totally different world fishing. So, so fun. I'm listening, Thio, and that I think about what's changed. And there are Maur over those. Right?

spk_0:   17:27
Well, I got a couple of things have changed when I was a kid, you know, seeing itself exchanged a fishery itself while the legal striped bass limit was 16 inches

spk_1:   17:35
right there was that actually voluntarily? Yes, it was no coastwide. It was our own voluntary size

spk_0:   17:44
and you could catch all you wanted. But there was a big difference, like to the new guys that the world conservation and stuff. And then sometimes every once in a while, I get a little slack about how many fish I caught and stuff, but in count on my left hand eyes that fished with us because we only fished at night because we didn't want anyone to know what we did. And there was only a handful of us that were really good. There was no magazines or Internet. We didn't tell anyone. We went fishing. We didn't tell anyone where we So even though we caught a lot of there's only hand catching a lot of fish in today's world, the recreational angers. Even if you let every fish you go, you got 10,000 times what we could did way more damage because a lot of these fish die you, even though we killed everything we could and sold them minimal compared to what numbers of people fishing will catch.

spk_1:   18:34
You kids today have no blue. I mean, you could look online. See, a guy goes out for a day. He catches You're 30 stripers. Well, is it a bad day? Well, I didn't have any fish over 32 inches. I'm like you guys have a cool. I remember when there was a time when there were no strike. If I get a picture man after the eighties, you but would a pass on it. You want a few people and have it some pitches. So when you say it was only a handful catching? Yeah, well,

spk_0:   19:11
they weren't really. It took years for the general public to realise that dry passage blackfish when? A couple of years ago. I mean, when your magazine, that's more in a couple of years ago now first interested when they pour ghee bite. My and I couldn't really get into a politically, but I said that it was amazing to me. That motto took 30 years to realize that striped bass a bees have I said that Because why would you ever give that out? You know, it's a big fish are so you're killing all your and then your customers only wanna catch big fish. So when you're out of them, no one's gonna go fishing with you. So you kind of sold yourself out and cut your own throat without realizing it just to please a handful of people for a minimal amount of time. But that was very foolish on their port s. Oh, yeah, yeah, But because the big fish matter, once you get rid of the big vision, I have a whole lot of small. So we're at that point now. That's why everything's changed.

spk_1:   20:08
So So you get turned on two bass fishing, end up fishing with a legend, right? Who? You know, I fished with a legend. Daughter Vance knew him. You know, don and well, unless you've done it, you can't blame to people what that means and what you learn and what they can show you. That I don't care if you watch on you two. I can't. You you watch every video there is. Read all about it. What's you? Just one person that really knows what they're doing until you're on your own,

spk_0:   20:47
right? Well, you know what that's about drugs there. There's 1/6 sense that goes with fishing. And guys like me and your friend on everybody else that reached that level. We fish seven days a week every single day. So we're on the water all the time, the most My new changes you sense you know, it right away there every single day catching every single day. Said that the smallest changes you're aware of, the average guy has no clue that even exists. Like when the bite when you go with a bite where you really beaten the fish up and it slows down. Did the fish stop eating when you're using? Did they move? What just happened here? You know, I mean right, so there's is we're like May I found, says an example. If you have, say, a flat sand bottom with three mussel beds spanning a mile over a mile one every say you know half a mile the best when they come into a muscle better and tackle a little fish on that bed. Everyone ran for cover. It's only X amount of time before they ate everything or there's nothing available cause it's hiding. They will move directly in line with the tie to go to the next mussel bed. If you knew that you would be there waiting for, the amateurs will sit on the mussel bed, hoping they'll come back. They're not coming back. They're gone. They left. They need more food, you know. So if you didn't learn that, you would just sit there and say G two bites over. Okay, let's go home or we had a time. One time we're in the ocean with on the bunker schools, and I'm not a believer in snag and bunker. I cast my bunker or you can guilt let him if you want, but I don't like really snagging them because they, when you put him in the bay. Well, they're just all full of blood around anyway. Make a long story short. I have a bunch of snake than his life while we're fishing his boat. And we had caught five or six good fishing. The bite started to get finicky. They grab it, tried to grab it, drop it. And I was like, It's the bunk. He thought I was nuts. I emptied the entire bay. Well, took the bunker act. Not a much more put him in as fast as we got to the bottom of an unofficial because they let out ammonia. They sense the deficient damage. They won't touch him so

spk_1:   22:53
that it is a secret.

spk_0:   22:55
Yeah, those are all those little things that if you don't know that you just You just had a day. You're fishing. Ended where you could Still called a lot more fish.

spk_1:   23:04
So tell me, uh, tell me about the first big fish or what? At the time when you considered to be, but big

spk_0:   23:14
fish, my first big fish. £42. Pretty big fish. That one first. That was my second year, Fisher. Well, I caught a listen. I caught him on an eel at West End two on the beach in late November. You know then that I was before I started officially, Frank, Frank caught some fish before I started Fisher, Frank. But when I started official, I consistently every year of my life had fish over £50. Every single year. I got one teammate for my daughter is 33 years old, my oldest one, my youngest ones 28. I have pitches with them every year of their life. Up until a couple of years ago when they don't fish with bass. 0 £50 every year of their life. Oh, pretty amazing. Yeah,

spk_1:   24:06
really amazing. So, what you gonna do now? It's gonna be, huh? Is gonna be a slot fish. Well, I'm not gonna be allowed to keep any big fish. I'm sure you're at the point when you meet since

spk_0:   24:18
most big fish anyway. But I haven't killed a big fishing about He is

spk_1:   24:24
most greats a while.

spk_0:   24:27
There's no point. I don't prove nothing when you're young, you want Oh, yeah, when you're young. A. There's a lot of ego involved in this game, you know? I mean, if you want to be the best of the better guys. I never wanted to fish against guys that couldn't fish. I want the best guys alive, the fish against me. I wanted to beat him. And that's part of the drive that makes you great. You know? I mean, like, if you if you told me that you're okay losing, then you're a loser. Yeah,

spk_1:   24:52
yeah, yeah. I like to say what you want. Yeah, you go fishing. We get there and saying there's always a competition. Yes, no matter what the closest friend. And then you guys of type and say my fishing is bigger than your air. I called war. We

spk_0:   25:06
used to have that better all the time. It was first most when I was a little kid on the boats. Actually, I didn't even realize it when I was a kid. Because I was working into common are a lot of guys would take me. And in those days, we used to have a standard bet on the boat. First fish, most fish, biggest fish after very shy. I almost won first list all the time. I fish on half these guys and stop the damn boat And official that I was started take their money. But they didn't tell me they sold their fish in those days. I had no idea because I was a kid. So we'd catch all these fish. They would sell him and keep the money. They didn't tell me boot. So I had no idea. A couple of years, actually, before I realized everyone was making money, selling efficient. I was catching, you know.

spk_1:   25:46
So so now. Eternity. Crazy maniac strike fishing already know

spk_0:   25:55
I wasn't married. Actually Got married at late life. I was in my thirties one again.

spk_1:   25:59
So your wife knew that you were crazy fisherman? Yeah. When you guys got

spk_0:   26:03
it, I actually told her that I was like, he tried to change me from bass fishing, but not get married, because to me, that was like the most important thing in the world at the time. You know

spk_1:   26:13
what? You guys work it out.

spk_0:   26:17
The life is listening. Worked out pretty good because I was a night fishermen for almost 30 years. I was a night fisherman. It didn't get in the way of my Children because I if I had to go to school, bring him to school. Anything had to do with my Children? I was off and I wasn't. Yeah, so I was fine. I would I would leave and come home. They weren't even up yet. I didn't even know I was.

spk_1:   26:37
Yeah, but I'm on vacation. Yeah, I come back to hotel Romantic way.

spk_0:   26:43
It would work. That worked out pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, because I love that. Then the Nite Bites stop. That became a day bite. Now it's a horrible bites, A little fish.

spk_1:   26:52
All right, Now, so let's go back from it. So you catch a £45 right? Um, do you remember particulars around that fish

spk_0:   27:02
was actually £42 of 1st 1 42

spk_1:   27:05
So do you remember them? I remember everything. One of the reasons you quote that big Listen, one

spk_0:   27:12
of reasons I'm a good fisherman is I don't forget anything I can tell you that time that tied the day that matters, that I never forget that. Right? So I was fishing West end too, and I was casting eels. In other days, we cast a lot of live eels. We just put a hook through their mouth, cast him out real immense long, right? Right. This big fish took it and I got a minute. Still doing that? Listen to this. In those days, I fished the pence quitter and the squid I had had a plastic spool, a metal one. You know, that fish broke the school in the center. It snapped. It was the pressure on them from the mono. And I still got a minute. And because it was it was clear as a bell. Beautiful day, lightly overcast. There was an outgoing tide. And like that, I got that fish on my took picture with my older sister. Had a Volkswagen at the time, a little Volkswagen And that vicious head was on one door on his tail was on the other. I was so happy I couldn't show enough people. The fish That was cool. That was That was a big deal. The way I actually brought him down there, Commodore Efficient station. But I had worked. And then, uh, the guy Oh, that was all excited. Big base. That was a big fish.

spk_1:   28:25
That's great. That's great. So most of your fish, from what I can tell, I mean, I don't know for sure, but you big fish come from the shore. It's rude. My sets and I get to thinking,

spk_0:   28:41
Listen, I fished a boat a lot, but I didn't really tell a lot of people and fish the boat that went out to take anybody out on a boat fishing. I could say that now that I'm a senior citizen, but But I kind of like that the boat has a lot of lot of knowledge to it. So I kind of left that out of the news. I rather stay, and I loved. And I loved the surf. I didn't do too, sir. Have, like, just so nobody would know what I was doing. I always fish to surf. I just like catching big fish on the beach. But and I've caught in numbers of fish over £40. I've caught turns off him on the boat, but four biggest fish I've caught in my lifetime or four more on the bridge places. You are a lot of fish. Nobody enforced it bother us. We actually way actually used to just pull the truck that run a sergeant. A fishing was big way. Listen, we didn't bother. Nobody know. We fished late at night in those days there weren't traffic today. So if you're fishing like on top of the metal work, Bridget, at two in the morning, you might have three cause an hour going over the bridge. Maybe today it's like there's so many calls on the road. Is traffic all the time?

spk_1:   29:57
Yeah. So, um, in the bridge tell, Tell me what that's about.

spk_0:   30:06
Well, rich fishing is really unique. Uh, it's not for everybody. Very, very different. And it's on Lee a time and the way for we fished Onley off of the bridge because we never fished the sides of the bridge week that we looked down on and we frowned upon it. That was damages. So it's a really, really hard fished right off the top. But when you're on top of a break

spk_1:   30:32
in the top

spk_0:   30:34
were fishing in the middle of the parkway on the road, walking across the bridge from one side was sitting right on the road. Now some bridges have a little walkway and some bridges. You standing in the middle of the park because going by its 70 miles an hour on, it takes. So it's not for everybody, and I don't I don't recommend it, you know, Because, like these guys that be Fetcher, there's guys that on purpose, a mature to scare you. You know, you gotta pay attention. Like we had a guy up there one time, a new guy come up. He had no idea. Never fished a bridge in his life. And he caught a bluefish. And any any wing the bluefish over, like you do on a party boat. And it landed on street car. Ran right over by the writer. I had another guy and I told him a couple of times he had a spinning right. We will fish conventional on the heavy conventional. But he was fishing a spinning rod, and he was think overhead behind him, flipping out and a car court is Louis spun him around like a top and took the rod. Look, did I say you lost exhibition, right? Really? You have no idea.

spk_1:   31:36
But you say you got one on. It's like a freight train. He literally

spk_0:   31:40
Oh, yeah. Let me tell you, it's Listen, I brought I won't mention that because everybody knows it. But I brought a friend of mine who was a police officer up there. Hey, he told me I was out of my mind. You're absolutely crazy fish, I thought, because I don't buy that 60 Every time a call comes, he's panicking. I like Relax, relax. So

spk_1:   32:00
So? So you used to look down because I don't know a lot about Bridge Fisher, but I have spoken with people that do it, and they do it. They still do until this day that the bridge is that they fished. Obviously, they're not fishing down there or anywhere where they might be. Terrorism involvement. That's mainly, but you can't do it, but they talk about can actually like fish kind of comes out of the shadow or something.

spk_0:   32:25
Well, actually, that's that. That happens sometimes, but not so now. We fish the bridge and we fished. The bridges walk across the top of a bridge because the bridge is stationary in the lights of stationery, you have the same exact shadow line all the time at night. Okay, The big fish shit. Inches deep on on in shadow line. And they never, ever go out the brain lit water. They stay in the dark shadow right on. That's

spk_1:   32:51
exactly what I heard. It pop. Just a little bit. You

spk_0:   32:56
could see him clear is about this time you could see the whole fish, you know, and I usedto because one of the reasons we're made it so good. Is that from a boat you couldn't see a thing if you want a boat. I've been on the bridges at night, so I catch 40 or 50 fish and the guys in the boats of talking themselves. So they're right there. But they can't see that. And I can present the bait way better complete almost in the mouth. I could see exactly what going on this. I fish in an aquarium. It's almost cheating sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, it really is like, I

spk_1:   33:26
can't do it anymore, but sure. Yeah.

spk_0:   33:28
We can't do it. We couldn't do it since 99 11. Really say really? Shut. The bridge is down. You know,

spk_1:   33:34
it said we don't have access, is it is,

spk_0:   33:37
But I cause that my biggest fish is £67 I caught that fish on the and I put that bucket right now. Fisher's mouth.

spk_1:   33:45
How did you get that out? You're in the middle of the bridge.

spk_0:   33:47
Actually, that's the hardest part.

spk_1:   33:49
You get a £67 bass on? Yeah, So the last fish you want to lose

spk_0:   33:54
Well, this is our works on a break. Like I said, the bridge ain't for everybody. You gotta have some, like, physical strength of visual bridge correctly so But I hope this fish the first thing they do only fish up tied by the way. That's what it tied under the bridge, not away from it. So when you took a really big fish, the fish goes right under the bridge and he's going with speed because you got a strong current

spk_1:   34:15
and he's going with the time. Yeah,

spk_0:   34:17
and the storm at the current, the better. The fishing is right. So I hope fish, I'm telling. I was almost on my hands and knees holding onto this fish. And you think for a fleeting moment you're really gonna break the rod hooks, snap some it break the line because you're fishing a super tight drag, sometimes minimal. Drag me to stop this fish from going under roll fish and £50 mine. I'll braid on a bridge. Could you probably get stitches when you could snag the cut? You can get a little But then, then it's a tug of war for the moment. A couple minutes with this fish, and then the fish goes into the tide and starts slowly come out. You can hear the line wine like when? When that storm goes through, the rigging on a on a boat you can excite and officials going against the tide very slowly coming out. But once you get him up, you're vertical. So you're vertically over a fish with a hook in a corner of his mouth. You walk, he swims with you. So it's not that hard if you never done it your sides or heard of the other night because you're pulling sideways for a lot of weight you're not used to. That's all right. Besides, like I want, You're good at it that that goes away. But the hardest part for me. Oh, so so what? The hardest part is when you gotta go around light pole, close all the bridges have a light pole. The light sticks outside of rail. So what? You talked a light pole with a £50.60 pound fish on? You gotta hand your rod to yourself around the pole and start walking down at old bridges. Every single bridge on this island is designed. They're all similar, their highest in the middle. Lowest going to the ends. And as you walk down, you lose line starts to slide back under the bridge again. You gotta pump him back out again. That's the hardest part is when you get him to the shore. When? When you're on the bridge,

spk_1:   36:02
what do you do? You walk down.

spk_0:   36:03
I walked, I walked him All that I walk on my

spk_1:   36:07
pulling up in a

spk_0:   36:08
camp full of fish up even £50 mano. And you might be able to get a £15 fish, Maybe a little bigger and lift them hand lining, which I hope, right? Yeah, but you had a hand line them. So if you got a big fishy, if you gotta have some stride grew five hand line Those fish up and the line I got good, strong ends. I get the line impression on my hand for three days later. Didn't think so deep into it, you know? Yeah, it's always worth so big fish. You wanna walk down because you won't lose him. Yeah, but the hardest part is When you get to the shoreline, you got a position efficient. Slide him in to somewhere on the shore. There's rocks there. Whatever. And then you got a free school and run 50 or 80 feet the way the bridge actually ends and then run down the slope to the water and realign back in as you go down. So that's the hardest part.

spk_1:   36:54
Can't even 60 plus right. And you deal with all of that? Yeah. You know, as I know, I'm sure like most anglers, you get a big fish on your heart. You bet. So, you know, it's like a feeling that you're an angler truly knows, you know? So you get a feeling that comes over here your heart No, Cindy gonna do also crazy stuff. Yeah,

spk_0:   37:17
it is true. I say it's not for everybody. I've watched a lot of guys out there. They lose big. My best friend fishing if he is, he lost the biggest fish I've ever had up there because he was working so hard. You're so exhausted. Could you caught the fish like in the middle of the bridge and had a walk in, like, 200 yards back by the time he got out of the hole from the hook was so big and efficient map he actually was exhausted. Dropped the rod tip. I ran down to get the boy him so he'd have to do that right on the shore. Could see the whole fishes and feet for me when he dropped the rod. Tip the buck. They'll feel right out of the fish's mouth. The fish didn't know it. It kept swimming toward the shore. And then the tie got ahold of it and I couldn't grab in. Time is a slowly slid away back freedom. He was sick for like a week. I thought he was gonna throw up from that. That's the worst feeling in

spk_1:   38:01
the world. Wait. But that's about

spk_0:   38:05
it. There's no worse feeling than losing a really big no. It takes a

spk_1:   38:09
while to get over that. Yeah,

spk_0:   38:11
while you get over there. But the bridge is that, you know, like now in today's world, at my age now I can't recommend people were just It's dangerous. You don't know what you're doing. We were young with way, weren't scared of nothing. We got so good at it and it was where I would run literally run to the show with a £50 I had one night, 1991 and two. I had 4 £50 fish on four consecutive guess in front of everybody, you know, it was pretty amazing. I mean it. Only they're all big.

spk_1:   38:44
We will have Part two with Billy the Greek next episode coming up soon. Next up is a gentleman that's been around fisheries management longer than May, and that's a really long time. When I started going to meetings, he was the only person at these meetings what, on the recreational side, no one was there. It was Tom. It was May, and I learned a lot from Tom at the time he was considered, You know, back in the early nineties, they were calling the fish hog because he always managed to get more fish for New Jersey and New Jersey anglers while staying within the regulations and the rules. He has always been a huge supporter of the recreational anglers to make sure that we always have a right to fish. Because, remember, folks, the best thing for fish is for no one to fish. It'll and I don't think that's what we want. We need a balance in time has always managed to find that balance. New Jersey, as you well know that they have longer seasons and we d'oh! They have smaller size limits. They have higher bag limits, and just about every single fishery there is. Striped bass is a game fish in New Jersey. And not only that, but the recreation. The commercial piece also ghost that a recreational anglers and that somewhere around £200,000 or £250,000. Yet wreck anglers only take around 2 to 4% of that total each and every year. So while people will say, Oh, well, Tom's killing all the, you know jerseys, killing all those commercial fish they're not. Those fish are being saved, and at the same time they are producing a huge income for the, you know, for hire. Fleet or anyone in recreational fishing business tackle everything else their seasons, the longer they keep more fish. And it's all due to Tom Foti. It truly is. Other people came in late and they are helping, but the truth is, Tom was there when no one was there. They used to be one meaning a year. And Tom was at that meeting. Tom got game fish done when everybody said it couldn't be done. He helped me. And many here in New York try to get that feet done here. But we couldn't get it done. So I want you to listen to this man. This man knows more about fisheries management than anyone on the planet. And you you can argue that any way you want. But I know this for a fact. He has no agenda. He's not sticking up for any one interest outside of the recreational angler and the fishery. So please listen as Tom talks about the good old days and we bring it right through till today again, this is also a two part series and we will have the second part in our next episode. And again, I can't speak highly enough of the man you're about to listen to

spk_2:   41:46
well, on the phone here with a good friend and a man who's been around fisheries management as long if not longer than anyone I know. And that would be Mr Tom Cody up for those folks. Don't know him. He is from New Jersey is representative Jersey and many capacities and fisheries management. He led the charge for gamefish status, which they do have until Tuesday in New Jersey. And he was around when we had a push with a status. So, Tom, uh, while we're in the middle of all this, you know, this new striped bass? I was curious if you could update us New Yorkers on what New Jersey is looking to do as faras which striped bass and conservation equivalent seasonal.

spk_3:   42:41
Well, um, we're basically looking todo way required to do is we did with summer flounder. We're going to do in 18% reduction on 17 1917 year club. Same thing we do with summer flounder. Except we're probably going to get some heat because we don't do it like other states. We do it. The way would be best for our state to do things the last time with some of flowers, they wanted to put the same size in the Yoko. We had just to a bigger reduction, but we put her own size limit and we just made sure this season, so I'm not sure exactly, because everybody's working from these statistics that the technical committee have that there was not not gonna be the slot limits that was basically put in place because I'd agree with salt limited at all. You think about what we were doing? There's a lot of women was gonna be from 28 to 35. Where we're doing that is targeting the 2011 year class, and the 2000 15 year class assumes that became sexually immature but just the opposite of what we did when we rebuilt the stocks, we give us the play, uh, protect the 82 year class, everybody. It's point it. What least once

spk_2:   43:58
one fish at 36 inches? Well, I can tell you the, you know, we did a survey on Web site. Well, actually, through our INSTAGRAM account, which got 700 over 700 responses, and more than 500 of them were in favor of the slide. And New York also did a survey. And while I don't have the numbers, I have heard secondhand from couple of people that it was really slanted towards the slide. So, you know, um, look, things are very different than they were when you and I first started. And in this age of social media there are so many voices pulling so many different ways with so many different people listening that it really it's just hard for me to sit back and watch what's happening because A ll the hard work that we've done in the past. A little bit of the time. I kind of see it stayed the way. But I know you're still doing a good job over there.

spk_3:   45:08
Well, I'm trying. Oh, if I listened to what? What's going on? Some of some of the people and they really I hate to say this because I'm gonna catch you. Usually they don't know what you're talking about. Let me see. We produce the high, the fourth highest under the year. In 2011 we pushed to reduce the eighth highest under the year in 2015. That's over 70 years. So we're producing great recruitment. So it ain't this ain't this morning stock bio, Mrs Problem, it's what we're doing to bring those fish up. And the other thing is that we basically don't have fishing sure anymore because of the water quality because of the bait not being insured of course, in New Jersey because of the beach replenishment, which destroyed everything. And sure, I mean really the most productive very we have right now between Wana get light and Sandy Hook. As far as fishing is Island State Park. Why there's not beat replenishing. There was no destruction of the lumps off the coast because that's a natural area and they left it alone because we're on a beach. Replenish their. So there's a lot of factors warm water in the basin s story and then also we have a lot more striped bass fisherman. We don't have a lot more efficient, but we have a lot more guys than a fishing strike this continuously, even though the fishing catch and release they cause a huge amount of catcher release mortality.

spk_2:   46:36
Yeah, well, you know, you know, I know. Look, we have to live with numbers, right? That's a that's a tough pill for me to swallow, and I know that is the number of 48% of the in all mortality on the wreck side is all from catching relief.

spk_3:   46:55
No lift said it's 52% on the wreck site and 48% of the overall mortality is catch a release. So we look at both of

spk_2:   47:05
you. Yeah. Okay. Yes. So now look. So So here's here's the thing. So on this year now ask them at sea. I guess it was kind of overwhelmingly supported. Went with the circle hook, right as fourth. Have to use a circle hook while your bass fishing. Last year, you would know that better than me. But two years ago, Um, think of this two years ago, Maryland at the last minute, um, got an extra inch on the strike back by offering a circle hook. So, you know, they threw that at us, and they didn't give us any credit for that circle hook. So let's say half of this immortality is bait. And this careful look is gonna suppose if we cut that down, like, 90% some crazy number that they have We've already cut back. Yeah, also, at that point, it would be a heavy reduction in immortality, but they're not even looking at that.

spk_3:   48:13
We're also you know, what we both both know is that it's your fishing, say, like the back bay of Barnegat Bay, or used you forget you remember, I'm a Brooklyn boy and used to fish out late South Bay in all those areas up there. And when you fish in the summertime in those warm orders, the hooker release mortality goes up to 30 40%. I I mean, studies that Maryland good on water temperature, low salinity, an attempt dramatically increasing the catcher release motel. Yeah. I mean, I have a friend and you have the same friend that I have that was out there talking about catching a strike. Best fighting for 45 minutes because he had, like, tackle Chris is 46 inches. But I worked on him a long time to revive him, revive him. Blacked. It builds up in the system, sometimes take a day or two. But then they dropped that.

spk_2:   49:07
I mean, he

spk_3:   49:07
did it with a text when friends of mine went down. My ready winner, uh, for Les mis Tropical first got tags and 80 might have been 86 87 some around because we don't want to use the America Little Society. Taste is at that time they were Delhi. Then it was fight against beach buggy. So we decided we do our own tagging program, and one of the guys took the Terex down the Delaware River that first time out, and he takes 10 fish. Well, it was August, and his uses fresh water tackle the Delaware Court 10 striped bass attacked him. We have the tender of Texas Tech returns in about 10 days, and the guy says, you know, I found always striped bass belly up with texted him, and that's when I realized because it was wrong more than it was for serenity. And it was hot air temperature that over the years they've done studies that prove what we knew immediately from the tag returns, because it just stressed out. Now we

spk_2:   50:08
might not get that. But I mean, what are we going to do? Next thing we're going to? D'oh! And I have heard this, and I actually might have come from you at one point about not fishing that warm water. Somebody said that to me, and I'm like, Well, and he was the best thing for the fishes. If we don't finish it, all right, so but important that we're able to fish in the summer months, you know?

spk_3:   50:32
Well, what I said is, if you're gonna blame the guy that take a one Trish home to eat that fish is maybe five or six times a year goes out. Charter boat brings home officially killed six. Fish matter. Fact. I'll give you He's not in love trips that he killed nine fish and he probably released 40 or 50 fish, maybe less, maybe 30 to get those nine fish. So maybe he's killed 10 fish. So you're gonna catch a release and you get through 100 to fish 110 fish. You just stop with the stripe. If you're so condemning this when you get to 1000 feet, you stop fishing because you're killing the same amount of fish. You killed

spk_2:   51:13
me. I totally get it. I get it,

spk_3:   51:17
and that's what I'm saying. Let's not be hypocrites. I don't think it's a catchall released guys that it's causing all the problems. I don't think it's, uh, very guys that's causing all the problems. The other part of this problem is we didn't have a problem with being overfishing. The treasure he was taking place until they used in the em up numbers.

spk_2:   51:38
Yeah, I know. I didn't want deep into with, but everything changed, You know, they magically change the number. And, uh, and this is what what's resulted? I mean, the truth is that, you know, people may not like what I'm about to say, but I'm not sure I've ever seen full fishing like I saw this year. And I'm not sure I ever I've ever seen a spring fishery. Like I saw this year, there were numerous fish over £50 more than I think I've ever seen. And

spk_3:   52:12
it was really it was a girl growing, and

spk_2:   52:15
they might even still be catching my eye. You probably are. I mean, just last week, we were out digging in the sound and catching all you know, some shorts, you know, some 20 to 26 20. But there is really clear water, and we could see deep. And there were bigger fish there. We couldn't get a bite, but there were bigger fish than ever. Fish everywhere. I haven't. And it's been this has been ongoing. If you followed party boat. Um, you know, these guys are catching a lot of fish, so But look, it is what it is. We are where we are. I'm not gonna argue about this

spk_3:   52:58
phenomenon numbers because numbers have pushed bluefish, overfishing and even Emmy. And they used the numbers. Ridiculous.

spk_2:   53:06
Lulu. I mean, we don't even know what they are this year. Yeah, I think

spk_3:   53:10
I got one. The

spk_2:   53:11
one hand, the number of pictures I saw a bluefish

spk_3:   53:14
way we're drinking. I was out list. I actually got out just last week without jig and basically one of my friends on the boat quota bluefish, about 1/2 a pounds. And he kept it. He says I'm taking that home, and pickling is Yeah, but you look at what's going on, you know, just with all the stocks. I mean, and then you use the absurd rules that you don't use common sense. Let's look, I know we're supposed to be on strike this, but they did stupid. They look yes, I mean years ago. And I know the story because I was there at the table in nineties. When we started doing this, we had 30% of the quota or 20% of the quota. They took it away from us to reward the commercial fishermen because they said they're gonna give her the bi catch And so we want it up with 18% of the fishery. Now, everybody said back then they're never gonna pretend there's never gonna be a regulations. Are Soukup See this? Blacklisted? Never. Just gonna get it blew first. Never gonna do

spk_2:   54:22
it. Everyone that

spk_3:   54:24
And I said no. We're gonna sooner rather put we have regulations because they want to cut back on the fish we keep. I mean, that's a wolf standing, this situation. And matter of fact, I caught him one day in the hearing saying, actually saying that a meeting and then I basically put on the record and they didn't like it. But anyway,

spk_2:   54:42
well, in those days, Tom, in your defense, in those days you would consider the fish on jerseys possible efficient. I remember talking to you like, Hey, the fire's only so big. We need to, you know, get a big piece of empires we could get, and most had no clue. You know, this most idea they weren't going to meetings,

spk_3:   55:04
but your way get to this year and they're looking at the scuff fishery. Now the 20 the commercial guys, they're not landing 20% of their quota. Well, 20% of the quota is bigger than the whole recreational catch. Okay, Way are basically with a stock that's two times the size. That's Cubs of Porky's, where I scrolled forgives in Brooklyn, but actually basically there. But they wanted to do. They were talking about doing a 28% reduction to keep us within the 18%. Even there's gonna be no difference on the stock Now is not common sense. You gotta put the pain that way. Don't got a big stuff fishery in the jurors. We have a little bit from the North.

spk_2:   55:46
Wait, but most of the boats have been living on that efficient sound talk and my talk, but I'm saying, is both that literally live on 40. They probably never thought they'd be there, but this year in the sound. Luke, I think they're one of the boats targeting them in, but they kind of just never showed So, And the truth is, I've seen 40 to take places I've never seen them before. I meant everywhere we go, there's a frickin forties and wonder if having an effect on other Fishery said they're eating everything because they're everywhere. Everywhere you look

spk_3:   56:33
that a fact when I was 13 or 14 that was beside snappers. That was the most productive fish I used to catch. And I used to say, Well, you know, where the Marina Parkway Bridges Way Couldn't fish from the top of the bridge. So I climb up on the guards will have to fight the ratchet they were going to back up four way beyond these girls under the bridge Fisher parties. I Philip the bucket. You know, we have ice back then. So we take the bus bucket on the bus is taken from, you know, back from Rockaway back thes Flatbush. And my mother would cook up these. Dr.

spk_2:   57:12
Look, that was in the days you could go down the chief head, right? And all the boats they will selling fish at a cocktail. You're walking up and down. Those were great days, you know. I mean, I remember when I started Nori's there. It has to be at least 25. 30 open in Georgia boats and sheep's head. How many of them today? Not as many of you. About

spk_3:   57:35
67 when I was a kid. Because that's right, fish. I went out. My dad that used to be. I think 80 chargeable party boats out of that area. There was also for a party. Boats fishing cannot see Pierre. There was also a rowboat rental. Right on. Cannot see Pia. I finished all summer long. I was on that take two and 1/2 hours by bus to get there. But that's where we were at six o'clock in the morning when the first night would come up and basically getting out spearing from the raw sewage coming out of the big apartment buildings over there. You know now? No. Now you have a hamburger place. The last time I stopped, it was about 10 years ago. It is a hamburger. There was nobody fishing, but there

spk_2:   58:18
was a productive area. I mean, yeah, way.

spk_3:   58:24
We have problems that we can't control that affecting fishermen and infecting everything else. I mean, inspecting the environment. I mean, I want a temperature. When I first Well, we were fishing back Member, We fishing Northport. I was fishing Northport back in the seventies, and we go out there in the winter time and it was three degrees below 02 degrees below zero. Also January and February because that Red Bull wait is on. You never see that temperature Anyone. When I moved in New Jersey and you know, I got a little girl in the first couple of years here I was paying for a guy that basically sink my pilings every year because we have nine inches of ice on lagoon raising the pilings. I haven't paid for somebody that bang my pilots in 20 years

spk_2:   59:08
because things have changed. And look, we lost a lot of sounds. Look, there's a lot of things that are going on, but, you know, I wanted to address back in the day. I guess it was in the nineties were pushing for game fishing. New York, you know, you had already passed your bill, and that way I'm while, you know, I was one of the driving forces. And you are? Yes, so but at the time, I was accused by many not well in the industry, not many fishermen. But I was accused of being a fish hugger, and I wanted to make a game fish because, you know, like I didn't want anybody keeping fish. And there is a misconception at there that game fish needs you have to throw everything back, right. Explain why you went from gate. This how it's worked out for you and the wreck anglers.

spk_3:   1:0:06
Okay, My intention was not to make everybody catch and release fishing back then. I was doing mostly catch a reason strike best, but I didn't want to do that. Everybody when I was looking for was strike. This is the only poor man's game fish. You don't have to have a by $100,000 boat. Now it's 4 $500,000. But you didn't need to go out in the boat. You really fishing. Steeplechase Peer cannot appear right on the beach in Jones Beach, which I've done right on the beach of Montag and land the fish. And like Jim Reynolds, which I've met a couple of times in 1979 catches, 78 was £76 with the world's record. The evidence he had right from the jetty in Atlantic City it was a poor man's game, said we weren't gonna see Marlon with drunkenness. He sell which butt stripe. This was one and also want a sustainable resource that people that wanted subsistence to take home first each had the opportunity because that's what we didn't colonial times. And this is what we had to rebuild the stocks, allow that what we did that going from 80 to 86. And, you know, I always remember that. Ah, good friend. Both of us is passed away a couple of years ago with Senate on Johnson. Because my first time, et cetera, when Johnson was my first commission being. And I told you know is what time you got here from New Jersey ritually and for Brooklyn. What are you doing in judges? I'm gonna make stripe. There's a game fish. And he kind of laughed at me. He says, Yeah, I'm really gonna do that. Yeah, I better have it done by next year. The next time I see you because you would show up through yearly leads back then, we didn't go over me as well. Mostly yearly means it was me. You were going to strike with the striped bass board hearing and I want him to me the next Jesus, he did it. How'd you do that? Because I didn't know I couldn't. I just always a matter of fact. Why do you do it in New York. And that's when on. And I started talking. You and I have been talking and, you know, let's put the building and I can remember you organizing the rally, which steams Sloan.

spk_2:   1:2:12
That was a great way.

spk_3:   1:2:16
Had 500 people on Jones Beach with those people. Now, Yes, I remember Billy Joe actually illegally out

spk_2:   1:2:26
mono. Yeah, have a great day. And I was, like, the only one out there that was a wreck. And oh, it was It was not good. Uh,

spk_1:   1:2:35
with Tom Foti next week, this wraps up Episode seven of the New York fishing podcast. I'd like to thank all of our listeners all of the support we've received and I apologize for the off schedule, but will be getting things on schedule soon. I will have a new protest down two weeks. Please. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast. It is everywhere you can get a podcast on apple podcasts. It's on our website at n y angler dot com. It's also on Google play. It's on. Everywhere you can get a podcast, you can get the New York fishing podcast again. Thank you to all of our listeners. I want to say, Give a big banks and happy holidays to all of my moderators or the team over at New York anglo dot com. If it wasn't for you folks, none of this would be possible once again. Thank you very much. I hope everyone gets what they want over the holidays. And if you don't remember one thing, you could always buy it later on. Well, happy holidays, everyone. Until next time. This is joints

spk_0:   1:3:50
caca a mission, bro. Thank you for listening to the New York angler podcast. You confined more on fishing New York waters at anyway. Angler dot com your secret spot online.