Is This Your Last Shot at a 50-pound bass ever? ASMFC Talks Striped Bass

This is the New York angler fishing podcast brought to you by Nya angler.com your secret spot online hosted by the man who introduced new Yorkers to the world of online fishing. Mr. George Scott gun

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Is that enough fake cheering or do you want more George? Thanks. Anyhow, Alexa, that was just fine. Welcome to another edition of fishing New York waters . My name is George Scott [inaudible] and you are listening to this podcast brought to you by New York, angler.com your secret spot online, all New York fishing all the time this week we have a really good show for you as we have max Appleman from the Atlantic States Marine fisheries commission. He speaks about a number of things when you also had Billy, the Greek, the legend himself and he will be talking about how he handles a go on about looking for bass at this time of year and how he's fishing him . When you also speak with the general, that would be Glenn sabers from the website and then we have all of our other features. But for now, I would like to start with my open New York and England were coming to the finish line as far as the average angler and Marine is closing and boats coming out of the water. But there is still some great fishing to be had. We are lucky to be here in New York at this time as we have our bass, a couple of blue fish here and there. We still have some big fluke around but a few days left. And then of course we head into the tog season , which many of us truly enjoy that fishery. This year. You got to watch out. You have two different regs. One on the North shore, one on the South shore. A North shore is at three fish bag limits out shows at four fish bag limit. And there are different uh, opening and closing seasons. Photog but make sure you get in on it. It's such a great fishery. Of course, we still have Portuguese everywhere. Um , everyone, you know, if they're not catching anything they go when they catch a few Portuguese. I've seen , uh, from cat and Joey legeo, he's been catching some Blowfish. Actually, I'm seeing a lot of guys catching some good size. Blowfish is like a mixed bag happening , uh, up and down the South shore long Island. So look, I can only say there's a lot of ways to get out. If you had to pull your boat from the Marina closes early, like I'm going to stay Marina. I know they close like in a couple of weeks, kind of frustrating. But I will get on a party boat or a charter boat and get out and get in on that tog action. So get ready folks. Remember this could be your last shot for quite a while to take home a bass over 35 or 36 inches. So if you are looking for that Holy grail 50 pounder, like I've yet to get, I had a 48, couple 40 fives, but no fifties and uh , I don't get it this year. I guess it's not going to happen, but the truth is if I catch a 50, I'm gonna release it anyways. So I'll never really know what it was. But I will , um , be out there fishing from now until the bite. And, and I recommend you all get out and do the same. Like I said, he got charter boats, party boats, your own boat. You got piers , you get docks . Well not many piers , but you do have docs . So get out there, get fishing, enjoy the rest of the season because cabin fever we'll be setting in before you know it.

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well I'm on the phone here with the general and the man who runs New York, England for me. And before I ask him to speak, I would like to thank you, Glenn for everything you're doing. I appreciate it. People respect you. You're doing a great job. Um, I never go into the political forum so I don't know how you make an ad in there. Um, outside of that, I mean we have a friendly, a friendly group that are willing to help other anglers without people attacking them and Coleman immediate . Um, so anyway, I want to thank you. You do a great job. You're welcome. My pleasure. Wellbeing there . Love helping out. Yeah , the site's going really good. Things are going good. The political format , that's what it is for . What ? It's mainly mainly focusing on the fishing aspect. More people joining up every day. More people post reports every day . It's doing really good. That's great. That's great to hear. So we , um, you know, we're gonna be adding all kinds of peaches to decide . I don't really want to talk about that now, but what I would like to ask it is, so we have a trip coming up. I'm really looking forward to it too . Tell us , uh, what, what can I expect when I get there and what should I bring? Uh , you know, bring whatever you want. Lots of good friends, lots of good . The annual foster call out is a, it's a good time. People have a good time, whether we catch fish or not , which we usually always do. Cause a lot of self . The quest . Yeah . Every time I go on that boat. Yup. 35, 40 days and we just, we have a great time. That's great . On a boat. Then we go off. It's a, it's a fun trip. Well, I'm looking forward to it. You know, I remember all those Northeast trips we used to do and they were always fun. I'm sure there's some, some of the same guys anyway and gals if they had any gown . Um, uh , only two coming if you Oh, that's good. That's good. So what kind of food can we expect? I mean, I want to ring , I want to bring Roger Buddha and I know it's too late. You're all booked up, but I'd love for him to come and do some sushi stuff for us. We can legal work with that job . You'll be fishing brings his famous ribs Mo. I'm looking forward to that thought. Beta brings droid squid and a bunch of different stuff. Nice . Bring their own homemade stuff and some people bring some small board stuff. We have bagels, donuts, Sodor food, beer, water. Everybody brings something. That's great. It's great. Yeah, I guess I'm going to be bringing some a , I don't know. It'll be a surprise. You know me, I'm gonna be packing. So then they brings , uh , somebody bring , you know, not everybody has to bring something. Some people bring knives and forks type of plays , coughs , all that stuff. And you know, since grade is the last week decision on what they bring, what is it, you know what we believe and the boat has enough food leftover for the next two days. They may love it. Yeah. That's great. For your weight on the boat, they store it and so we have a, we have a great time. It's all about the, it's all about the friends and the commodity and the fishing. Yeah, that's exactly in that order. Yeah. It's a fun trip. And like I said, the same, the same 35 people look forward to whatever year and I look forward to doing it every year and just , it's great. We're going to have to, we're going to have to start , uh , doing an extra one because we'll do a fluke one next year, 10 . So yeah, every day they asked me every year to do a fluke corn and a loop for me. I know it always gets crazy. Yeah . It's in June and that's when my buddies both started going in the water and we're getting that ready to go fishing and walk in a day . Cause we have a tournament shawl tournament in June. Yeah, yeah. I get it. But you can handle it. You'd been general, you know how I did, I get some of your troops to help you out there. I charted to sell the quotes to self boats a couple of years ago. Yeah, we had [inaudible] on a double and it was great. We had the two pools on these boat warm pool for the biggest biggest loop bull boats. It's great. I mean look, when I started Northeast , Desi was kind of starting and we both build together and I can remember , uh , we went out on his, he had a smaller boat and we all went out and Alberto was there, killed something . I mean you were there, the whole gang was there and my brother was still around and , and he was, we had all the food going inside. It was like kinda the first time we'd ever done that. And my brother, I remember he was setting up all the food. He was a foodie . And I go, well you go outside of the fish. Is that guy all right. All right. I swear to you, he goes out, he sets up right next to John Skinner and he catches the bull fish , especially for 10 minutes. And he thought like, I don't know the size of the page, but it was the bull fish. And sadly that was the last fish . You have a court, you got to cancer after that and passed away. But on a good note, he did get to hang out and you know, it was a great, great time and I'm so glad that , uh, and looking forward to see your trip cause you've kind of picked, you picked it up and made it better. So I'm going to gain the , and listen, I appreciate everything you do. And um, I'd like to spend some time making fun of some of the characters on the site, but I dunno who could take it. I know Dominic could take it, but I don't want to get him a hard time and such a good guy. But I'll figure out somebody, I got a couple people in mind, I'll figure out somebody who will have some fun with them . All right . All right , that sounds great. All right , cool. Glenn , listen , thanks a million for everything. As I'm sitting here, I'm watching Chevy's , uh , Patriots totally destroy the New York jets as I expected and I'm sure he's happy. Yeah, I've already given up some down, but anyway, it's good. It's just as well at least they get to go fishing . I don't have to worry like I'm missing anything on a Sunday. So, but anyway, Glen , thanks again for everything and let's think of somebody's chops we could buzz and I got a promotion coming up on Bubba blade that we're going to push through these podcasts. So , uh , think of who we could roast and maybe , uh, maybe we should ask the guys on the site, guys and gals, but maybe it'll be you roasting on this site. All right, sounds good. Well , I got a a couple of people more and we'll figure out somebody . Alright . Hey , good , good. I like it. All right, look, thanks again. I appreciate everything. I look forward to fishing and keep up the good work with the president. Thank you very much. Thank you. General.

Next up folks. We have max Appleman of the Atlantic States Marine fisheries commission. He see it as speak with us about the current situation with striped bass where it's at, where the fishery is at as far as health is concerned. He will also talk a little bit about bunker and sturgeon, all species that we find right here in New York waters and I want to thank max for taking out time from his busy schedule to speak with us here at fishing New York quarters

right now with max Appleman. He is with the Atlantic States Marine fisheries commission. He oversees the Atlantic, menhaden striped bass and sturgeon. He's the fishery management plan coordinator. I don't mean he oversees this max. I don't want to make it seem like it's everything is up to you, but welcome and I thank you for doing this interview. I guess what I'd like to start out with is, you know, we're dealing with , uh, a lot of anglers that really don't understand how we get to where we are, how you count the fish and what the fishery is like. And they hear all different things that there's nothing wrong with it, but I think we all kind of know that , uh, there's something going on in fishery and things are changing and it needs to be addressed. And I was wondering if you could give us an idea on where the fishery is and where do you look into go with it. So Georgia you referring to striped bass with that question? Yes. I'm sorry. The Stripe bass .

Yeah. So , uh , I appreciate that. And to reiterate, I am not the manager here. I'm just the staff members of the commission. And as you say, I, my primary role here is to provide information and , uh, answer questions as best I can. So , um, regarding striped bass , um, uh, an assessment came out in 2018 , um, and show that the stock is over fished and experiencing overfishing . And that's the latest science that we have on, on the coast wide population. And so when that happens over fished, over fishing, the management plan requires the board to take action to address overfished and over fishing status. And right now they're going through the process of considering management changes to reduce fishing mortality down to the target level. Um, and so this drafted denim six that's out for public comment right now, proposes a suite of bag limit and size limit changes for the recreational sector as well as reductions in the commercial quota to achieve a F target or target mortality in 2020. The intent is to have new measures on the books for the start of next fishing season.

Okay. So this seemed to move like really fast, right? Like so normally when I go to , uh , a DEC meeting , uh , hearing rather in New York, you know, they've got options out for, you know, conservation equivalencies. We haven't seen anything of that anywhere. And I know that's not in your purview, but will we be having that option? Do you know? Is the States are a , just going to go with your recommendations or, or do you expect to see conservation equivalencies?

It's a good question. You know, striped bass is a coast-wide population. It's managed as a single unit, but the fisheries that exist up and down the coast or are not equal, they're very different. They're executed differently. There's a lot of different user groups. And so we strive for coast-wide consistency and in the form of regulations as much as possible. Um, but recognizing that a lot of, there's very unique fisheries up and down the coast. Um, that's where this conservation equivalency concept comes into play. It allows States flexibility to pursue measures that are different from the standard in order to address very unique or , um, very unique differences in that particular state or region. Um, and the conservation equivalency process is , uh, goes through the technical committee. It's vetted through the technical committee. And inevitably in order for a state to implement those measures, it has to go through board approval. So there's a rigorous review process involved there. And to be blunt, yes, I do expect conservation equivalency , uh , to be pursued by a number of different States with a drafted denim six. It's hard to comment on what those will look like right now just because we haven't actually selected a base measure from the addendum yet. But, right .

Well I, you know , um, you know, when you all know that the options will be either shorter seasons, different and flat limits , uh, you know, for each area, whatever works out best for each area. And you know, that was always a good piece of the management. Um, so, you know, the number is this year we look at these numbers, everything's moving in fast motion, which again, I don't disagree with them. A resource , uh , first guys. So, you know, I'm glad to see this quick reaction. I've seen this go slow at times in different fisheries , uh , like bluefish , which I'm sure we'll be talking about this, not to you, but with someone else in the near future. So, you know, so now, now we're at a situation where some States seem to have a much healthier fishery than others. There w we've, we've seen recommendations come out from you guys, which include some things which are not an issue at all as far as you know, size limits in the wall. But I do have a question on this circle hook issue and , um , I'll tell you why I'm coming from, again, I don't know where you are , uh , with this or if there's an actual number that recreational anglers are being credited for for using this. I mean, look, it's common sense. You're going to say more fish. Um, but is that something, do you know that we are getting quite for, will we get credit for, I I've looked at studies on it and it's like some of them say, well if you use a circle hook the date , you're never, you're not gonna kill anything or it's like 1% and you know, I start thinking, gee, how many fish are we killing, you know, with treble hooks and how many are we catching with bait? Do we know that different numbers? Is all miss , uh , taking into consideration or do you think we're just throwing it out there? Cause we know common sense wise it helps.

Um, uh , there's a lot going on in that question. I'll try to tease out a couple of answers there. Okay. So the first thing I'll mention is that the management program as it currently exists, does include a recommendation for States to promote the use of circle hooks and its benefits to anglers , um, using, you know , public outreach education programs, all sorts of outreach platforms. Uh, just to get to work the word out for this, you know, what's been commonly recognized as a conservation benefit for the resource. Um, the assessment people are hearing the number 9% mortality rate from the stock assessment and that comes from a number of different studies up and down the coast. Looking at the survival of striped bass caught with different, different types of hooks from uh, you know, the , the standard J hook circle hooks, I believe travel hooks are involved there, but also looking at different bait types from natural cut baits , uh , to Lewers. Um, and then looking at you, different parts of the coast, different , uh , water bodies, different water temperatures, air temperatures , salinities , all these factors that may impact the survival of a fish that's caught on hook and line. And so looking at across all those studies, the stock assessment , uh , takes an average, which is about 9%. And we say that all of the fish that are caught and thrown back, 9% of those are, are assumed to die. And that's where that number comes from. So it looks at a number of different studies up and down the coast and a different , uh , under different environmental conditions and water conditions , uh , in different hook types and things of that nature. From a technical perspective. Um, you know, I think the striped bass technical committee has taken a stance that circle hooks , um , are purely a conservation benefit and aren't, you know, counted towards reductions or savings in a, in a quantitative approach. Um, but that doesn't mean that the board or other bodies might look at conservation equivalency differently , uh, when it's implemented. So, yeah, that was great. It was , that was perfect. Um, so last year, now again, you know, I wasn't close to this or maybe it was the last time, not last year. Maryland wanted a 19 inch fish . I mean , look, I'm getting, this is felt I got from people I spoke to down there and so I don't know the whole truth to the whole matter on just getting pieces of it. But they were looking for a new teenage fish and it was supposedly 20, and then they said, okay, well you know, want move you circle hooks in . They ended up putting an 18 inch fish. Excuse me. Is that, did that happen? I'm just curious if they were, they were awarded in ish on that circle hook. That is the current measure for Maryland in the Bay. It was a , they did receive board approval to put those measures in. It didn't go through the TC also. Um, and I think the TC summary of , of that meeting would show that I did not necessarily endorse those measures as conservation equivalency for the points that I brought up about circle hooks counting towards your day . Right . Um, nonetheless, we were in a sort of a holding pattern, I believe with the management program, with a stock assessment , um, nearing completion and coming out and , uh , hearing a lot of concerns from anglers in that region expressing economic and other hardships with the measures that went in place through addendum four . And so with all those things going on , um, you know, the Maryland was able to put those measures in place and we'll definitely have to revisit those measures as they go through this, this draft agenda .

Okay, great. All right, so speaking of the addendum , um, it was mentioned by a number of States that , uh, maybe we should have a new amendment. Is that, I mean, from what I could see that seems like it's off the board, but I don't know, maybe it's , they were going to do something now and then look at that within a few years

or do you know where they met them ? I think it's the intense of the boards who initiate an amendment. You know, look at this fishery from a , a bigger perspective, a more holistic view , um, that, that, that sort of process will happen after this addendum is completed. That's sort of the vibe I've been getting over the last few board meetings. I think there's a number of issues that anglers have brought to the attention of this board over the last few years. Concerns, issues , um, ranging from the reference points, maybe not being appropriate to , uh , the management goals and objectives themselves not being lined up correctly for this fishery. Um, that kind of management document does take more time and I think the board has recognized that. And so to get this fishery back on track, to begin the rebuilding process, they had decided to attack , um, these management triggers in two steps. First with a document that looks at reducing mortality to the target, the more pressing of the two management triggers. Um, and then to consider a, a , a more longterm rebuilding plan or, or program, including a number of different issues that may be on the table in a subsequent document. Okay. I got that.

I hope everyone else does, but yeah, no, I totally got that. That makes sense. Um, so, okay, so we're moving quickly on strike pass , which for the fishery is a good thing. We all know something's going on. Um, of course it's always been the layers out there. As a new Yorker, I've always been proud and it cannot be argued. We have led the way in conservation. We always have, everybody was taken to fish at 28 we would take and take one and 28 at the time. Lot of people disagreed with that, but we did it. It was the right thing. Sadly though, we can never save those fish. So they kind of just go back in the pool and ended up getting distributed anyway . But we did, you know, we've always been at the forefront. So obviously, you know, we have a big um, spring fishery and you know, the guys fishing up the Hudson, they get a shot at him for a couple of weeks a year. And I was wondering if you knew anything about that with that, the New York decision. Totally. Um, and all those Hudson fish figured into the entire bio mass number that you have for Stripe as,

okay . So I'll take the second part first. And that, yes, these, these fish are all part of the stock assessment . So the stock assessment does not, is not regionally or spatially explicit , uh, and that it models different parts of the population. It models the entire population as a single unit from Maine through North Carolina, including Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay, the Hudson and all the various rivers and tributaries were striped bass exists. So that's all modeled as one single unit. Um, and obviously it's migratory so they're all connected in some way, shape or form. Um, so to the point about, you know, what, how fishing is, how measures are crafted in Hudson river as you pointed out. Yeah, New York is one of those States that goes through the conservation equivalency process to put in different measures in Hudson river. It's a prime example of why conservation equivalency , uh , is very useful for , uh , wide fishery like striped bass. Um, and so I would expect them to come forward with a proposal for whatever is selected. An addendum six. I would expect a conservation clemency proposals from New York for the Hudson. Okay .

Okay. Yeah, because uh , you know, the angle is up there . They get a lot of bad, a lot of bad press for killing a big pregnant fish. But I gotta tell ya , those people are the most conservation minded angle is I've ever seen. You know, you see on, you'll see pictures of big ones would eggs, those folks really watch over their fishery . And anyway, that's , that's a whole nother story. So we really attack and Stripe bass and you're right there , uh, at the forefront of it all. So I know that there's a lot that's going to happen. It's going to go and fast motion. I'm going to stay on top of it as much as I can and I really appreciate all the info you gave me, but a band that you are also dealing with menhaden. I wanted to ask you if the commission had anything to say about uh , what was divulged this week. Basically they,

I mean with Omega overfishing and they couldn't help it. Um, do you guys had a, can you tell me more about that with what you see or what the commission sees and what uh, what, what you see moving forward? I wish I had the answers there. George. I without question, the board will talk about the Bay cap and uh, what's been going on in Chesapeake Bay at the upcoming board meeting in October. Um, you know, the stance has been so far to sort of hold off on further discussions about the cap until all the benchmark assessments are peer reviewed and reviewed by the management board. And that's not scheduled for FET until February of next year. Um, so, you know, the board will revisit what's been going on in the Bay this year and uh, we'll have to leave it at that. We'll see what comes out of that board meeting. Okay. One last day. Again, New York gang lose , especially those Hudson Hudson river river rats that we'd call them , um, sturgeon . So there was like big news this year that a huge sturgeon, I forget how big it was. It was like 12 feet, maybe more , um, was picked up on sonar in a spawning area up by think of his knee and Niantic or have a store or something like that. Um, can you tell me what that face should be ? Is that, I mean, we all know, we used to have , uh , what they call that, like Eastern bee for something river beef and we fished it all out on , but how is it now? That's awesome. But they found a 14 foot sturgeon for the record. I think that's incredible. Um, and it just goes to show how resilient this population is. It's been under moratorium since 1998 and so back in 98, the commission closed the fishery due to overfishing and that, that plan has been in place ever since. And you know, we did a big population assessment the first of its kind really back in 2017 and we found that while, yes, you know, on a coast-wide scale, the population certainly is not doing as good as it once was. Um, but there are signs of recovery, you know, and I think seeing a 14 foot surgeon up in the Hudson is proof that this fishery, or I shouldn't say the fishery, but the population is still persisting, that there are still big females out there. Um, I've also heard of a lot of juveniles showing up in parts of Chesapeake Bay where they hadn't been seen quite some times. So , um, different segments of the population are certainly rebounding. Now again, I'll, I'll harp on the point that not nearly at those levels that we saw prior to the moratorium. Um, but they're still out there and a hopeful for I, you know, one day down the road , uh, that they can sustain a fishery once again. Yeah.

Yeah, that would be great. Hey, listen, I remember one time we said that about striped bass and we did that. So , um, hold on that girl a little quick there. Um, so look, I really appreciate the time. Um, hopefully in the future we'll be able to look again when this all gets done. But , uh, I really appreciate your time max. And if there's anything you'd like to say or mention, if you want people to write in, I mean I gave you my , uh, I gave you my results, which I'd go pretty good, seven, 705 people of every age and I mean the perfect demo between women and man and it seems like New York really wants that slides . So , uh, you know why , uh , I'd be curious to know what the rest of the coast is look at half, but , uh, again, I , I'd love to speak with you in the future and I so appreciate your time.

Yup . So public comment for Stripe ass open until October 7th. Okay. Visit ASM fc.com to find the drafted denim on our webpage and you can see the different avenues to submit. Comment . I recommend electronically@commentsatasmfc.org with the subject line striped bass drafted denim six. Uh , that is the best way to submit your comments on this draft addendum . I agree,

max, thanks again and good luck with everything moving forward. Thanks George. Okay, great speaking with you. All right , bye bye. Bye bye.

Once again, I'd like to thank max Appleman of the ASM FC for his comments on the a condition of the Stripe as fishery and my only comment that I am going, I will be sending my comments in in writing. However, I would just like to mention one thing and that is the circle hook requirement. Aye . It only makes sense that's going to save a lot of fish and being that ASM FC has determined that recreational anglers are killing 48% of the fish as a bycatch. If in fact a circle hook is going to take the bait fish mortality from 9% to 1% which some studies have suggested and I believe rec anglers should get credit for that. I don't think we should take it as a throw in. I think we should take credit. I feel it sets a precedent where they can ask us not to fishing warm water or you can't use light line. I it opens up too many doors. Education is fine. Teach people how to do it, but if you're going to enforce it and force us on it, we should get a conservation equivalency. The same way that Maryland got theirs last time around. Again. Max, thanks so much for the interview. We're going to roll from this right into a Stripe ass legend caught many big fish over 50 pounds. He is literally a living dinosaur because the guy's probably got a flip phone if that, but he could still flip a bait and he could still throw a lore and he could still catch fish. And his name is Billy the Greek. He has authored a book night, tide's bestselling book on striped bass fishing and he's here to share what he does this time of year and what he's looking for when he's targeting big striped bass .

I'm on the line here with the legend Billy, the Greek himself. Ludacris. He is author of night tides . He's caught many big bands growing up. I remember seeing , uh, seeing him with the , in photos with bass that I could only dream of. I actually didn't believe that they were there because I could never catch them . So , uh , Philly , I don't want to get into a too many stories at this point. I'd rather you talk about , um, how you approached this time of year, what you look for, the moon, the tide, the wind , South shore to nudge or boat serve . Give me everything you've got.

Well that's good. Thanks for inviting me on the show. Joy. Uh , that's a lot to cover quickly, but we'll go over it. This is a good transition. Now from summer going into early fall because our bait patterns in the late September , we're going to start leaving the Bay a good strong nor'easter. We'll , we'll start flossing a lot of debate out of the Bay . So the guys that have targeting fish now, especially since we have such a large body of small fish around , uh , these facial be be exiting the Bay , it'll exit the Bay and the fish will follow. So you should really concentrate pretty heavily on the inlets and the beaches close to the, unless , and this will go on for a couple of weeks and then the pattern will change a little bit. But right now you'll be doing yourself a big favor if you start your target fish that are leaving the Bay entity unless and on the beaches and a lot of guys in the little world now you can target them with any small Minto style. Lewis , I won't get into the brands because everyone has their favorite. They all catch pretty well. Yeah . According to the fishermen and and bucktails and fast moving water that they're hard to be, you know, so don't stay in the spot long. This is the time these fish are moving. Everything is transitioning now. So you need, you might have fish for an hour, for 10 minutes, it'd be a loser and had gone keep moving because these fish are going to be moving and in waves across down the beach as they exit the Bay, you know, and they come down the beach from the North. So , uh , Oh . What about, what about the, the bait, the bait guys? Well, based a little different. Yeah. If you're going to Bay it , it's just a similar scenario of you're gonna fish a dead bait or live bait. But if you're going to chunk like you need to be, you should be close to the inlets because there's going to be a lot of bass starting to exit and gather around inlets . So right behind the backside of the inlets on the front beaches, right next to the inlets, all of that will start producing and that you're wind moon tide that'll do that. You know what I mean? So I'm a big believer in the moon because the moon moves the most fish. And I liked the new moon especially that's why we named the book debt . But on the night Todd's with the new moon . But anytime you can, fish is better than any time you can't . So your job as a fisherman this time of year, you have to get out when you can, but you need to keep a pattern going. Cause the pattern will be pretty consistent for a little while. And it might be a day by day and night bite . Usually at this time of the year though, with the base moving out, you get a pretty good early morning by, you can get a late afternoon bite, you know, and um , you'd have to go by your sides. But right now if you're out there fishing you want, you want Lewis to cover water fairly quickly, you know, and you can move around too . You find your fish and then you can lock in. If you want to try for a bigger fish, get away from the small stuff. And Jay like, do you ever gonna buy a fish that, you know, eight, 10, 12 pound fish you catch in one after another. You don't need to catch any more . After he got into the mountain , you had a good time, you haven't funded , you want to look for big fish, try putting a much bigger lure on and see if there's anything bigger out there that'll take it. You know what I mean? Right. You guys just stay with one thing and catch, you know, they catch 25, eight nine pound fish and they're thrilled. But there's not a lot of big fish mixed in with those little fish. But there's always a couple, you know? Yeah, that'd be true. Yeah. If you it , if you take the shot, you know your, how many little fish do you need to catch before you said you caught enough, you know? Right, right. So what type of, all right , so we know what you like and Lord , um , I'm going to go back to bait . So would you fish live or choke ? And when you choke [inaudible] your bait live is tough to fish won't because you have to catch your keep it alive. So beach fishermen can't do that, you know, guys that offer, so live, live, it's pretty much a boat and, or unless you're fishing eels, which are really productive and that's probably your best live bait from anywhere because you can keep them alive and use them all night or all day. Right? Yeah. Sorry . Chunking. When you chunk or fish dead bait, you , you need to move best take when they're feeding, you should have a fish right away. You don't need three hours in the same spot. You know you need 15, 20 minutes, you don't catch your fish move and you don't have to move much. Move 50 yards, done 80 yards . Now keep moving. You know, cause most, most fishermen do not read water well. So you could be 10 yards away from a good spot and not know it. If you move, we might catch fish, you know, I mean if you keep casting the same bait in the same spot all the time, which is what most guys do, you're hoping the fish find you. That's not a good scenario. You want to kind of find the fish, the auto game . A good fishermen is to find the fish, not them find you. Alright , so you just said that , uh , most people can't read water. So what should they be looking for Wayne ? Like a pretty, that's pretty easy. I'm gonna , I'll go over this in a real simple vein. All striped bass or structure oriented fish structure is anything other than flat. So if you're in an area where the beach is pancake flat and the water breaks on the shore line and rolls off 50 yards, there is zero structure there. So if you're fishing that the chances of finding best, they have to be cruising past, not lined up, ready to feed . So if you have a hole in the middle of that flats in that structure, if you have a hump that's structure, if there is no structure and a bit, the beach has a pitch to it, the structure is right in front of your feet. That's where that wave breaks on the shoreline and digs out of three or four foot a trough and arrested the beaches on remarkably flat. The official travel through that trough looking for food. They won't stay there and they don't live there, but they're gonna come right through there. So instead of casting as far as you can onto the flat desert, you need to just fish the trough in front of you 15 feet in front of you and you'll catch fish, especially with a hard pitch. Other than that, then you need Sambol so you need a , if there's a bar, you can see a sandbar in any base just looking, especially as the tide drops, you'll see that the white water breaks on the bar and then there's a flat spot that's deeper. Always fished the edges where the bar meets the deep water because the fish always on those edges if you don't know what you're looking at, you know what I mean? You can also, like if you're fishing bait, you cast a sinker out, see how long it takes to hit the bottom. If you stop it on purpose when you cast and it hits right away, you are in very shallow water. If you can count a second or two or three as it thinks you're in deeper waters . So you always want to be on those. Transitional edges presents structure and bathroom structure and you know, structure is simple. In other words, if it's a bad structure, it might hold one or two fish goods for structure. It will hold a lot more, but any structure is better than no structure and it's that simple. So you need to cover the water. You need to fan the water. White guys that fish bait, cast it out, reel it in every two minutes until it's at your feet. Change debate and do it again. That way you're covering water. If you sink a stick, Todd , then hit an edge and leave it there. If it sticks, leave it there . You're in the right spot. You know what I mean? Same thing with Lua fishing. Have you looped fish? If you cast as far as you can and real straight in, you really need a lesson in fishing because you should be angling your cast 15 degrees all the way to shore on both sides. Fan that hallway area from the shore line out as far as you can pull away in, move 1520 feet, do it again, 1520 feet. Do it again. You're covering every inch of the water, so Fisher at a hundred yards or if there is two feet in front of it , you are going to find them. If you do the same thing and you repeat like in other words, if you cast as far as you can , just really as far as getting real in , you're just covering a little tiny piece of water right in front of it. Now the order of finding me the art of fishing is to find a fish that that's your first job as a fisherman . And to do that you need to cover water and you need to cover tides. So you always want to cover the last three of album calling in the last year we have incoming, you know, see what a fish are biting the most and that's how you start. So you fish that and then you cover it. Is it a day bite? Is it a Knight bite in your area? You know, you'll find out if you only fish one section of the tide at one time a day, you'll only catch fish when those fish are feeding on that. And that's a real bad scenario. You know what I mean? You want to know if you have a buddy, it's even Betty and wa , one guy should fish night . One guy should visit day until you catch a fish and then you say, okay, well we'll do this. Or if you're both fishing together, fish two different style Lewis until someone catches a fish, then you both fish that Lewis . You know, you should never, all of you should never start off fishing the same thing because you have no variety. Yeah . That's funny you say that because always whenever I'm faced with someone I'm like, Oh, wait a minute, I'm using that used to be used in some different, 100% to something. I go to the diamond today, I want to have eggs and bacon. You want to have pancakes. You know what I mean? So that fish aren't any different than us in that sense. So at one minute they're feeding on Balka . Next minute they want seeing deals and they want Portuguese, they want black rights . So they change and you've got to find out what they want. Yeah , yeah, yeah . I mean, that is absolutely how many tone that , listen , yeah . I th I think you'll agree. I mean this is when it's all happening. Thoughts. Yes. And it's stuff, right? Listen, this is very important. The first Northeast wind that over 18 to 20 miles an hour kicks in the fall run that moves more bait than any other win and it's usually the third week in September. And on that we start to get those strong Northeast winds . So when that, when that starts to push you off those, the bait knows it's time to go. Now is down at the dock the other day where I live, there was so much bait in the water. It's amazing. There are school at the school, if the school, a peanut bunker, there was whole pods of 50 to a hundred mullet and coming in little pods all day long, spearing everywhere . I want you to know how to best buy grandson and there's so much bait. It's amazing. Yeah. And that's going to leave. That's all gonna start leaving and the fish and all way better than we'll ever know when it's time to eat because that's how they get big. They have to be efficient. Well, big fish or efficient or they wouldn't have got big . They would , we got caught , you know. Right, right. That's true. Yeah . Well I've got to get big guys in one way or another. Yeah. Okay . So when you all, all right, John , let me ask you this. So if you had your choice, what you do , um, would you prefer beach fishing this time of year for the bigger fish or boat ? Would I prefer Bay fishing or boat fishing? Yeah. Well I don't know him well , I want him , I want him fish . I would lose a fish right now because the fish are transitioning from summer mode to fall mode, moving in and out with the debate as the Bay move . So you want, you want to be able to cover a lot of water quickly. If your based vision , you're stuck in one spot. Actually, let me put bass fishing in the right perspective. When you go bait fishing, whether live bait or dead bait, you should have a pretty good idea where the fish are because that's the hardest way to target them in that sense. You know what I mean? [inaudible] if you're on the beach fishing a sinker with bait, if you're in a boat, you're probably drifting around the bunker pots . But could you imagine going on a boat with live bunker just drive off into the middle of nowhere. It put the Bay down . Hope you catch something that's , that's not a good thing . Yeah, they, I was out yesterday on the sound and Smithtown Bay is, you could walk across some bunker there. Every signs there is right. And they are everywhere and there's not a lot on him . I mean, he's basically outside a couple of two [inaudible] for this time a year. In other words, the acres of bait are getting ready for winter, so they're gonna there's going to start leaving the Bay . The game. Patient know that they will catch up with each other sooner or later. Right. So they haven't, we haven't transitioned yet into the fall run. So that's why it's important to cover water. Just like you just said, you could be on gigantic schools of fish bunker bait with no fish on them yet. That could go for a week or two or three. So you wouldn't want to sit there with the bait hoping something found. See the idea is not the hope. Something finds you. It's for you to find them. Yeah. Yeah. So you want to do , want to cover water and , and Lewis cover water the best. I mean the freshwater guys in my opinion have their act together better than the saltwater guys. Cause if you watch any of these shows, these guys have six rods with six different fluids . They, they cast this, they don't get it. They take another rod , they cast that, they fish the surface, the mid depth, that deep depth. You know, they fish fast. Well I'll tell you right now, I'm an addict with those shows. I'm terrible what it's all about. If my wife was like, are you nuts? I'm like, I'm into this best thing. What's the theme? What's the theme of the entire freshwater circuit? Find the fish. Oh absolutely. And those guys amaze me. I do a lot of freshwater fishing and when I watched them and they're , you know, the reading and they're telling you about depths and everything, it's just , you know, I don't, for some reason I don't think of it like I do salt water value wise , but it is a thing. There's a whole different philosophy. And this is it . First of all, you're in a condensed area, which is a Lake. So there's only X amount of patterns to learn and sooner or later you'll get good at it. So what is way different? We have, we have tides, we have, we have an infant amount of water to cover. But besides that, the majority of long Island, I'm not gonna talk about the rest of the States. I know long Island, cause I grew up here in a fish commercially and , and I worked on party boats. So the main theme of long Island was fishing to eat. It was inclusion for sport . So almost everybody has that mentality to catch fish, to eat. It's , that's slowly changing. Now, like when I was down at , uh , last year at field five, I watched 300 guys on the beach, Gaston , but for fish that run to 28 inches with $2,000 worth of gear on, I was like, wow, look at that, you know? Yeah . So , and they counted for a 48% of all the fish that died supposedly. But yeah, but, but leaving that out of the equation right now, it's the fishing. You can see it start, they're starting to learn how to catch fish for fun versus catch fish to eat. You know, and I , when I grew up, every fish that was going on , you know what I mean? They hated the guy didn't need it. We gave it to somebody else who ate it, you know? So that's why they change. Yeah. And when you listen, it's like anything else. When you do what you do to survive, you don't alter your technique because that's how you caught fish . Yet , if you went to this spot yesterday on a Northeast wind and beat the fish up, if the wind changed the Northwest, you'll go right back there tomorrow. Because you caught fish. They won't be anything there because they're not there on a Northwest wind. But you don't know that because you're just going fish yesterday. That's all you know when you're going right back there. But if you were a tournament fishing, you would say there are no fish on this beach, on a Northwest wind. They're only here on Northeast wind . I'm not going at Amar . I gotta find a beach. That's funny. I mean, I only know the area that I fish all the time, the bus stop , but I know it just like that, you know, like if it's a Northeast where I'm like, ah , again it , you know, I'll like this time of year. I know like you was saying, and it's funny because the truth is I liked the morning bite tomorrow morning. I, I've got to now go away at about seven. I should have , I should have actually went this morning. But , um, but yeah, so I totally agree with everything, but I get catch any giant fish like you, they might not be, they might not be there, but , but I guarantee that no matter what the conditions there is somewhere that has fish. It's a guarantee because if you fish on this piece with this wind and there's no fish, those fish want somewhere to feed cause they got eat . So like years ago when I finished the great South Bay area, there was a, on the , on that East wind, there was one area that I caught a lot of big in and as soon as the wind blew East, you couldn't catch a fish. They on the best day of life, and there could have been hundreds of them that a day before , but two miles away, not by the superintendent. Well , I'm saying two miles away. It was loaded with the fish because the wind direction was in the right. It was a completely different , um, waterway to the wind. And they liked that . Right . And so there , you know, when you , when you get into the hardcore world of fishing line I live in, it's really simple. There's either a day biter and night by, or a tide bite or a time bite . Those are the only full bites that addressed and they combined with each other at times. In other words, you could have untied bite that's outgoing, but the Fisher only feeding at night. So you will have a nice bite on the outgoing or you could have a time by now. Time bite is rare , but I've seen it at beaches with just for arguments . The only time you get a bite is now a half hour before the sun goes down. That's it. You don't do nothing else. So that particular beach produces fish on that little time by that time, you know, I mean, but it's always a tide bite, striped bass feed by tide , you know ? Absolutely. I totally agree. Yeah . So you need a tie to all the bad times . I mean, even when I kept my boat down, I paced great South Bay. Same thing. You know, I needed, I needed outgoing. I mean, I could have incoming if I was all the way in the back, but if I'm on a big parish , I needed outgoing 100% right. You know, but that , and that's a good reason to write everything down. And that new generation , I gotta give him credit because even though I'm a dinosaur, but , but I'm a good dinosaur because I can do things that like all these kids with their computers and stuff can do. But that's just for me as a friend . But they can do some, I can't do, I write down every day what I do. In other words, the tide , the moon, the wind direction, the color of the water, the clarity, the bait. I saw what I caught, dadada , but these guys can now, the ones that are really like small with the computers, they can write all that down like I do, but they could put it in a computer and the computer will spit out a thing that says you caught 38 fish on this stage of these tides at this time. And they'll start to put patterns together that I know in my head. But I don't, I couldn't print that on would say ability. You really showed what a dinosaur you are . I just know I am . Yeah , because they don't even own a freaking computer. It's all on the phone and yeah, that's a Camino weapon. So lazy. They still don't, the guys that kept logs, you know what I mean? Like we all, it was X amount, 10% k ept b logs. I 've, l isten, I have, I have full logs and I have, and I have a book. When we used to write down, u m, u h, when we were young, we used to, we used to know where we were because we'd write the two buildings, meet the light pole, y ou k now, a ll the ranges. And I have all my r anges from years ago, but nobody does that no more n ow. Well, they don't have

to like be tall . When you were talking about looking for holes in spots, I have a device and I've used it in lakes where I'm fishing from shore and it's , uh , it's a fish line that you cast it out and it registers, you know, it's a regular fish. Fine . Really in him , I've seen a whole bottom and charts the bottom, but it makes a chart on my iPhone. Yeah, pretty sure. And they're going to put that in drones I guess, right? Oh, it already is. They just came out with underwater drones. So , uh, you know, I mean, look, dance a lot that people can do, which they sent my point, the point I'm trying to make is the same way anglers could have written everything down the way you and I did. Um, they could now do it so much easier. I mean the apps , if you take a picture, it captures everything. The weather, this time , this, that way you were , you know, all these different conditions and they still don't take the time to do it. So, but you know, they do have their photos. So now they can say, Hey, when did I catch fat? And they go back. So at least they have that. But , um, but they don't use the logs. I mean, when, when I own Norris , we had , uh , I don't know, 200,000 visitors a month. We only had 2000 people use in efficient law . So most of your right, most people won't get involved in that. But you know what, that's why that old say , and they used to say 10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish. You have guys that do their homework and put their time in and learn . They catch the fish. You know, I always said, since I was a kid, I said it , I've said it the, you know, I said I'm not the guy that reads the news. I'm the guy that makes the news. So I don't want to be the guy that follows the fish. I want to be the guy that's in the leading catches him. You can follow me if you want. Yeah, right. Exactly. Well, look, that's why we have you on here tonight and you know, I mean, being that you're such a dinosaur and nobody even sees you online or anything, so I'm the whole thing , uh , to have you on as a regular guests and , uh, I definitely want to have you back on again very soon. Maybe even next episode if you like. And I really appreciate this information. Uh, you know, I don't mind listen is get , uh , what exactly what you're saying because I do and uh, I know it's very valuable, so I appreciate it. I'll come on when I can, as if I'm not fishing. I'll come on a , I said , sounds great man. Listen , thanks a million for everything and good fishing. Oh, we might say one thing I wanted to tell you, you're there, right? Yup . So what do you think about, there's a really good chance and we're going to have, I don't want to get into fisheries management, but the truth is there's a good chance next year that you won't be able to keep a fish over 35 inches. So this literally could be your last shot. Add a 50 pounder. Wow . What are your thoughts on that? Wow . I'll tell you what, the fishery is falling apart in my opinion. They really need to do that. So I've caught a lot of big fish in my life, so I'm going to retire that out top . Say it publicly. They'll never catch me in there because they can't keep that many big fish. So too bad this dinosaur dies with all the big fish. But besides, but they really need, they really do need them to do something to the fishery because they really beat it up. There's no fish out there, you know? Yeah, totally. I totally agree. Well, listen, on this podcast we have , uh , we have the ASM NFC , uh, given us a rundown on where they're at. So listen, Billy, I really appreciate it. I do want to have you back on again next. Go around, keep us , uh, keep us abreast on what's going on and what you've seen and what you hear and it's always good talking with you. It was good talking to you too , George

[inaudible] . So now comes one of my favorite segments where we talk about fishing and partners and living with someone that fishes and the other one that fishes a little but one that's like a die hard like may . And over the years, you know, I haven't been the most organized fishermen, but of late, I feel like I've been pretty organized where, you know, it's time to go on a trip and I know I'm going, let's say fluke fishing, so I'll get all my flute [inaudible] stuff ready. I'll get on the bag and I'll get my radio, everything I need for the boat, I get it all ready, I load it all up. So this way in the morning I can just get up and try not to disturb my wife too much because you know, I have had a habit in the past [inaudible] maybe not knowing where my keys were or maybe not being able to find my way around. So, but my vision or view of the events of my last trip war , in fact that I did get up quietly, everything was packed early and I left and I went to the boat slip. It's early in the morning. I might've had to come back before I forgot something, but I do that every time, but I'm really not sure. Um, so next up my wife is going to tell you her side of the events and how she actually saw , um , what happened before I went fishing.

Everybody. So now I'm going to tell you the real story of when did you, why did you gets ready for fishing? Nothing is ready. Okay. Every single time he goes fishing, he has to wake me up. Whatever time he's leaving. Where's my keys? Where's my fishing lie ? Well , where's the outfit that I want to wear? Where's my shirt? Where's my pants? Where's anything that he, he knows where it is. He doesn't know where anything is. So , um, and then yeah, he'll get into the car and he'll drive maybe whatever, two minutes, three minutes. And the next thing you know I have bang. What's that? Who's that? Oh, it's me. I forgot. I don't know . My lunch. He forgets everything. So , um, never ready. So if you're going to go fishing with your wide , make sure you buy your own lines and you're going to be late. Just so you know. So a happy fishing.

Yes . So I'm totally disagreeing with that. I don't, I don't agree. I know I used to be bad, but I think I'm much better and especially the launch art. I never bring lunch February .

Well maybe not now soon .

Well, I never ate. I never, I'm not a big eat or when I'm on a boat I want to catch fish. But anyway, I think you're exaggerating. I think I'm very quiet and totally organized and I wished that my fishing partner Steve were here.

Can I say just [inaudible] Steve left . He'll tell you.

Yeah. Well I wish Steve were here. He'd say, yeah , that George, he really has put it together over the last few years. Right . We're going to ask Steve. I got a few things. Okay. I guess next issue we'll bring Steve and

[inaudible] .

Well, that wraps up the show folks, and I'd like to thank everyone who joined us here for this podcast, the ASM FC with a max Appleman and of course Billy degree COO . I hope to bring you each and every week as well as everyone else in all our guests. And again, I wanna thank everyone that's subscribed. Everyone that has supported this podcast, please subscribe to it as we strive to you night , the recreational angler as we move ahead in protecting our rights to fish. Thanks again everyone. I'll see you next time.

Thank you for listening to the New York angler podcast. You can find more on fishing New York waters@nyaangler.com your secret spot online.